Again, a stupid comment from another poster:
I hope you will heal your relationship with your daughter, and your
ex-husband. And work together with him, not fight against what you think he
should be doing, to help your daughter navigate her way to adulthood
successfully, and safely. Best of luck.My response and final post in 2007:
Well, I'm not fighting my ex for anything, in fact I barely speak to him. Where my daughter is concerned all I have really done with him is let him know the facts of what we have gone through. There has been unity between he and I(during the worst part of things while she was here) until she actually moved down there. That is when things changed and I seem to have become the "outside" party with no rights or reason to be heard. That is unacceptable in any court of law, or in any other way. I know I can't control what goes on there, and I have no desire to, but I can't allow him to shut me out of my daughters life either. And that is what is happening right now. I sent her there, because the only other choice was foster care, and I couldn't do that legally without his consent. I wouldn't want to do that anyway, because it would only further her horrid attitude and behavior being in a non familial environment with people that don't care about her the way we do. I don't like my ex, or his family, by any sense of the word. They are a bunch of negative, phony, maniuplative hillbillies that have made my life a living hell in many ways over the last 20 years. But they are family, and it is "away" from the bad influences that my daughter was around here, that I have been fighting so hard to get her away from. Is he a horrible person, yes. He has never had to be a father, not even when we were together, because he always made sure that he was somewhere else(he'd hang out at his parents and leave me home with the children), and that he never ever dealt with any issues that would require him to take responsiblity and do something physically in the parental or husband role. So now is his time to step up to the plate and be accountable. And my time to sit back and let him. Not without being a part of my daughters life though. That I will not and cannot do. I am not sure where you got that I was putting my daughter out of my life??? That is so far from what I have been doing!! Don't you understand, I have been fighting to keep my daughter in my life, and our home. And it has been the hardest and longest fight of my entire exsistence. And because she has free agency, and is the age she is, and has done what she has done, is likely still doing, I couldn't allow her to remain here with me, or her siblings any longer, or they too would be lost. She is not dead, or dead to me, but I do have to "let her go" for now and make sure that the other children in my home and in my care are ok and can live a life that is free of the type of drama that she has brought into our home, not to mention the dangerous element. I am not sure how you would handle a situation like ours in your own home and I hope you never do, but I think you would likely do much the same things that I have. And as for my feelings, what my condition my heart is in over all this? I am heart broken and heartsick over all of it...but, I understand now(partly due counselling, and partly due to my mother and all the other good advise and support I've gotten) that I can't let it rule my life anymore, because I have other children and a husband that need me. And I need to be able to have a life as well. My daughter, while not in my control, is in the hands of family who love her, despite their failings and lack of brain cells for the most part, and she will have to deal with her behavior and choices there, and not here and I pray she will come out of it a better person and come back to some semblance of of who she was before she went astray, and be able to acheive the goals she had once set for herself in life. It's all I can do now. I love her, I pray for her everyday, and I think of her almost every minute of the day. I cry for her, and miss her horribly........that most of all.....but I know she is where she needs to be right now. I am being the best parent I can for her in letting her go....and that is the worst heartbreak of all. Now, I've got to run and get the rest of the crew here working on the garage with me so we can put away the christmas decorations and get their bedrooms switched and Stacee's things packed up and ready to mail to her....I've been avoiding this for weeks.....now I can do it without crying everytime I go into her room(now her little sisters).
Saturday, January 5, 2008
And the last word in 2007
To end the year 2007
A shorter note:
.......I have since talked things over with both my counselor and my mother......what better help can I get that, besides all of you at CC???!!! I decided that he was just a waste of my time and breath. I have decided to just let my daughter go for the time being, and if she wants to talk to me, she can come to me. Then we will see where we are with things. I have too much to do and too many other people that need me to dwell on her and her drama from afar, anymore. I love her, and I miss her and I pray that she will get her act together and make something useful of her life, but I can't change her, and I won't give her an excuse to bring her drama back into my household again. Not even from 800 miles away. I'll be very busy the rest of this week getting her sister ready for her New Year's eve party. I've got a little cake to make and that is how it should be now. It's going to be hard, but I've got to stay strong and let her take her life lumps where she is and how she chooses from here on out, but love her still the same.
.......I have since talked things over with both my counselor and my mother......what better help can I get that, besides all of you at CC???!!! I decided that he was just a waste of my time and breath. I have decided to just let my daughter go for the time being, and if she wants to talk to me, she can come to me. Then we will see where we are with things. I have too much to do and too many other people that need me to dwell on her and her drama from afar, anymore. I love her, and I miss her and I pray that she will get her act together and make something useful of her life, but I can't change her, and I won't give her an excuse to bring her drama back into my household again. Not even from 800 miles away. I'll be very busy the rest of this week getting her sister ready for her New Year's eve party. I've got a little cake to make and that is how it should be now. It's going to be hard, but I've got to stay strong and let her take her life lumps where she is and how she chooses from here on out, but love her still the same.
One more in December 2007
Ok, the subject is still the same, but the previous comment was about whether or not we should let our kids have or attend sleep overs to try and prevent problems....here's my response to that:
I have given that alot of thought as well. I am generally a very cautious parent, especially in that area. I wasn't worried about it because the parent I thought I could trust, didn't tell about this guy until it was too late. And some of the time she was visiting, she didn't spend the night at all, just a few hours. Even so, it was not enough to deter this horrible thing from happening, and it isn't the whole problem with our girl either. The other major thing is her choice of friends. And not the one in whose house she met the pervert. We have had to deal with a whole different "friend" and I use that term very loosely here, and her meddling mother. Went so far as to take out a restraining order against them. Never had to serve it though, because by the time we went to, we already had to send our daughter away to her dad to live. A few hours ago ended the Christmas holiday, and with that came the first phone call I have had with my daughter in about 2 weeks. I've called twice before, once a week(it's all I can ever get anyone to answer the phone there). Both times I felt that she didn't really care to hear from me and didn't even give me the curtousy(spelling) to leave to a quiet room where we could talk. I called today, after trying 4 times, and I didn't get anyone to answer then either. Then about 5pm or so, she called. She wasn't expecting me to answer the phone I suppose, because she asked immediately for her siblings and I really had to make her talk to me. She warmed up, I guess, in a minute or two and we had a nice talk about what she was doing in choir, and trying out for a play the city was putting on(her dad insisted that she try out I guess) and what she got for Christmas. She normally would get very detailed and excited about what she got, but it turned out to be more of a "You wouldn't buy them for me, so they got them for me here..." kind of list of things, if you know what I mean? I didn't react the way I think she thought I would, I was pleasant and said, "That's really nice Stacee" and I meant it, but only half heartedly, but she didn't know it. There was the whole, "Thanks for the christmas gifts" in a really fake forced way, because she was really pissed because I didn't give her what I originally had purchased and planned to give her here. Instead I gave it to the family as a joint gift. It was a DDR(Dance Dance Revolution) game, and a race car driving game. Her dad bought her a brand spankin new X-Box360 because she probably told him that she was getting those. Jokes on him......he who is constantly crying poverty and telling my children that he shouldn't have to pay anything else but the child support. And I told him that I wasn't giving her what I planned or what she thought she was getting. I said I didn't think she deserved it after what she had put me through this last 6 months. What I really wanted to do is give her a bunch of that candy "lump of coal" and say, "This is what naughty girls get for Christmas".....but I didn't. But it is what she deserves. We ended our conversation on a sort of pleasant note, but I had to practiacally force an "I love you" out her, like she was gritting her teeth and really didn't want to say it. After all, she did tell me that she doesn't miss me, and she isn't the least bit homesick, since they have been "wining and dining" her the last 4 weeks. That is what they do instead of deal with real issues. You would think that was the end of it right? Not even close..... She asked to speak to her little sister next. She was not out of the room 5 minutes when she came back in, in tears and said that Stacee wanted to talk to me again. I asked why, and she said that she had let her know that she had told her that we had given the laptop computer that she never fully paid for, and that we had taken from her, to her brother. That computer was taken away, and we were asked to hold it for the police in case they were able to press criminal charges on the pervert. They eventually decided that they couldn't and we had in our safe until after she left. She had asked me if she could have it back if the police didn't need it anymore. I didn't really answer her. I told her that she didnt' deserve to have it. She stopped making payments on it as soon as she got involved with this pervert and still owed us about $400 on it. So in effect I repossed it. And that is my right. Apparently my daughter doesn't think so. She started in on me about the laptop and demanded that I either send her the $270 she paid back in July(her one and only payment), or the computer. I said she was getting neither, and she started swearing at me and say it was "Bull***** and that it belongs to her, and I better just send it the H*** there. Again I told her that she doesn't own the computer, and she was never getting it back anyway. I also told her that she was not going to swear at me either. She came back with "The Hell I won't..." and I then simply said, "Well then my dear daughter, this conversation is over," and I hung up. I felt bad that I hung up on her, but I was not about to let her have her little tryaid and treat me like that. She will not bring anymore drama into my home. I was also wondering where the heck her dad was when this was taking place???? She called back about 2 hours later, and talked to only the kids this time who answered the phone. I found out from them that she was using her dad's cell phone, because they don't have long distance. So I was wondering how she got the cell phone. Her sister said that it was really quiet there, so she asked how come and Stacee told her that the parents, my ex and his wife, had gone to bed because they had to get up about 4 am to take off for San Diego(again, leaving her to her own devices) on the truck with a load(he's a long haul trucker). So, either he's just a really big ass and gave her the phone to use at will, or he doesn't even know she called. I don't know. What I do know is that my heart is once again broken and I feel like I have lost my little girl for good now. She will dig her heels in even farther now against me and my husband. The selfish, foolish little girl doesn't realize that she is just hurting the people that love her, and she will be the one that is most hurt in the end. I am comfortable in knowing that I am doing the right things as her mother, and I am not going to back down or let her think that she has some right to talk to me or treat me the way that she does. I am going to call her dad tomorrow night and talk to him about a few things. I'll feel him out for how the phone call thing went today, because Iknow he lies to me all the time, and to his children, who can tell and don't fall for it anymore either. He will most likely make up some reason for not answering the phone, or he will be a snot, because his wife is present. We will see. This afternoon I have an appointment with my counselor. I really need it after this. Christmas was really nice until I talked to my daughter. Isn't that sad?
I have given that alot of thought as well. I am generally a very cautious parent, especially in that area. I wasn't worried about it because the parent I thought I could trust, didn't tell about this guy until it was too late. And some of the time she was visiting, she didn't spend the night at all, just a few hours. Even so, it was not enough to deter this horrible thing from happening, and it isn't the whole problem with our girl either. The other major thing is her choice of friends. And not the one in whose house she met the pervert. We have had to deal with a whole different "friend" and I use that term very loosely here, and her meddling mother. Went so far as to take out a restraining order against them. Never had to serve it though, because by the time we went to, we already had to send our daughter away to her dad to live. A few hours ago ended the Christmas holiday, and with that came the first phone call I have had with my daughter in about 2 weeks. I've called twice before, once a week(it's all I can ever get anyone to answer the phone there). Both times I felt that she didn't really care to hear from me and didn't even give me the curtousy(spelling) to leave to a quiet room where we could talk. I called today, after trying 4 times, and I didn't get anyone to answer then either. Then about 5pm or so, she called. She wasn't expecting me to answer the phone I suppose, because she asked immediately for her siblings and I really had to make her talk to me. She warmed up, I guess, in a minute or two and we had a nice talk about what she was doing in choir, and trying out for a play the city was putting on(her dad insisted that she try out I guess) and what she got for Christmas. She normally would get very detailed and excited about what she got, but it turned out to be more of a "You wouldn't buy them for me, so they got them for me here..." kind of list of things, if you know what I mean? I didn't react the way I think she thought I would, I was pleasant and said, "That's really nice Stacee" and I meant it, but only half heartedly, but she didn't know it. There was the whole, "Thanks for the christmas gifts" in a really fake forced way, because she was really pissed because I didn't give her what I originally had purchased and planned to give her here. Instead I gave it to the family as a joint gift. It was a DDR(Dance Dance Revolution) game, and a race car driving game. Her dad bought her a brand spankin new X-Box360 because she probably told him that she was getting those. Jokes on him......he who is constantly crying poverty and telling my children that he shouldn't have to pay anything else but the child support. And I told him that I wasn't giving her what I planned or what she thought she was getting. I said I didn't think she deserved it after what she had put me through this last 6 months. What I really wanted to do is give her a bunch of that candy "lump of coal" and say, "This is what naughty girls get for Christmas".....but I didn't. But it is what she deserves. We ended our conversation on a sort of pleasant note, but I had to practiacally force an "I love you" out her, like she was gritting her teeth and really didn't want to say it. After all, she did tell me that she doesn't miss me, and she isn't the least bit homesick, since they have been "wining and dining" her the last 4 weeks. That is what they do instead of deal with real issues. You would think that was the end of it right? Not even close..... She asked to speak to her little sister next. She was not out of the room 5 minutes when she came back in, in tears and said that Stacee wanted to talk to me again. I asked why, and she said that she had let her know that she had told her that we had given the laptop computer that she never fully paid for, and that we had taken from her, to her brother. That computer was taken away, and we were asked to hold it for the police in case they were able to press criminal charges on the pervert. They eventually decided that they couldn't and we had in our safe until after she left. She had asked me if she could have it back if the police didn't need it anymore. I didn't really answer her. I told her that she didnt' deserve to have it. She stopped making payments on it as soon as she got involved with this pervert and still owed us about $400 on it. So in effect I repossed it. And that is my right. Apparently my daughter doesn't think so. She started in on me about the laptop and demanded that I either send her the $270 she paid back in July(her one and only payment), or the computer. I said she was getting neither, and she started swearing at me and say it was "Bull***** and that it belongs to her, and I better just send it the H*** there. Again I told her that she doesn't own the computer, and she was never getting it back anyway. I also told her that she was not going to swear at me either. She came back with "The Hell I won't..." and I then simply said, "Well then my dear daughter, this conversation is over," and I hung up. I felt bad that I hung up on her, but I was not about to let her have her little tryaid and treat me like that. She will not bring anymore drama into my home. I was also wondering where the heck her dad was when this was taking place???? She called back about 2 hours later, and talked to only the kids this time who answered the phone. I found out from them that she was using her dad's cell phone, because they don't have long distance. So I was wondering how she got the cell phone. Her sister said that it was really quiet there, so she asked how come and Stacee told her that the parents, my ex and his wife, had gone to bed because they had to get up about 4 am to take off for San Diego(again, leaving her to her own devices) on the truck with a load(he's a long haul trucker). So, either he's just a really big ass and gave her the phone to use at will, or he doesn't even know she called. I don't know. What I do know is that my heart is once again broken and I feel like I have lost my little girl for good now. She will dig her heels in even farther now against me and my husband. The selfish, foolish little girl doesn't realize that she is just hurting the people that love her, and she will be the one that is most hurt in the end. I am comfortable in knowing that I am doing the right things as her mother, and I am not going to back down or let her think that she has some right to talk to me or treat me the way that she does. I am going to call her dad tomorrow night and talk to him about a few things. I'll feel him out for how the phone call thing went today, because Iknow he lies to me all the time, and to his children, who can tell and don't fall for it anymore either. He will most likely make up some reason for not answering the phone, or he will be a snot, because his wife is present. We will see. This afternoon I have an appointment with my counselor. I really need it after this. Christmas was really nice until I talked to my daughter. Isn't that sad?
December 2007...more
I suggest you go back and read the entire thread my dear, and then see if you have the same "opinion". And as for your mom and grandmother, I think if they were in my shoes, they would do exactly what I have done. Thanks to all of you for your kind words of support(those of you that get it...). I am not to the point yet where I can get through a day without crying about my daughter when I think of things. Perhaps I never will, but I know I've done the right thing with her. And no one will ever convince me otherwise. I have to say this as a parent, and as a former child: No parent can ever be too pushy when it comes to the safety and well being of their child. There are parents that are knit picky, that's different. I am not one of those parents. All I ask of my children in this life, is for them to be kind, respectful, and responsible people, who will be positive and productive and good examples to those around them. That is not too much to ask or expect. And if you think otherwise, then you my friend, need some help. Much of what is happening with our children today, in general, is due to the wrong thinking that we have to respect our childs "freedoms" and let them "find their own way" in the world. I had a court evaluator say that to my face, along with my husband a couple of years ago when my DH's son wanted to come and live with us. His mom is a parent who has the same thinking and as a result my step-son has been flunking in school since 4th grade. He wanted to come and live with his dad because he wanted to do better, and because the schools here are so much better and offer so much more. The guy couldn't have been more wrong in his thinking. It was all his mother needed to hear. She felt validated and has done everything she could to burn that idea in her son's brain too. It finally worked for her, that and the promise to him that he could do anything he pleases at her house and she was ok with it. She drove the point home when she purposely had the friends that we dissaprove of at her house with our son when we went to take some of his things to him. (The biggest druggies in the school there and over all bad kids.) He is there now "Finding his own way in life" and still flunking out. So much so that last week(like we needed more bad news in our house) his mother called to tell us that he has been kicked out of the mainstream high school he was in for failing all his classes and behavior problems(they don't just kick you for bad grades you know). He was starting at an alternative school, which we are all too familiar with as we lived 2 blocks from it when we still lived in that town, and it was pretty dang scary!!! All the worst kids are there. Druggies, gangbangers, and over all bad kids. And this is where our son, who is not bad just stupid, is going to be???!!! This is on his mother's head, but it still hurts our hearts. As for my step-son, he's known all along what he was doing, and lied about it....big surprise, he doesn't want to face his problem either. Difference is that in our home there is accountablity and in his mother's there's not. She gives him the same treatment my ex gives, the ole "Your great just the way you are. Let's just ignore what you've done and it'll be like it never happened." Parents with this kind of attitude only instill ignorance and failure in their children, and as a result, their children end up thinking that they can live their lives being dishonest, and never having to be responsible for their choices. This is incorrect and distructive thinking. And I choose not to be that kind of parent to my children. My saying is this(and you can ask my kids, they will back me up on this): "I am not your friend. I am your parent. I don't care if you like me, in fact I expect that you won't at times. That's ok. I am your parent, not your friend." To those of you who think that pushy parents cause kids to behave badly, I say: Have a child and you will change your thinking. To those of you who found something familiar in my story, I say, thanks for recognizing that you were one of these and are sorry for how you behaved, Now go tell your mother.....she will be happy to hear it. You deserve a great big hug for doing that. Recognition is the first step in change. Thanks again for all the words of support and validation, I really needed to hear that. I can't tell you how this has drained me, physically, and mentally, what I can tell you is that I have peace in my heart, along with a very large hole. That I am afraid can only be mended by my daughter. I hope one day it will.
December 2007
Again, another response from another person, however misguided it may be:
I have to say, hard situation. I also think that lookaway was juat
providing a comment from the daughters situation and how it may look through the
eyes of a teenager. As a hormonal being they can be, I believe they can be
wilely creatures, having been one and having 3 teens and 1 toddler. I won't pass
any comments on your situation as I am not there and you truly have to be in
ones shoes before making assumptions but lookaway was just responding to a
thread which no doubt has 2 sides. Hard situation and I hope it gets better for
you. CheersAnd my response to that:
"Two sides"?? Well if you want to put that kind of spin on it, ok let's do that: My daughters side is this: "I want to do what I want, when I want, with who I want, wherever I want. No matter how it affects me or my family or anyone else that loves me or is trying to help me become a good well rounded person in this world. AND my parents shouldn't have anything to say about it....or be able to stop me from distroying myself, and my family in the process." (By the way, she actually said most of this to my face.) My side: You know what my side is already. Is that what you meant? I stand by what I have said, and what I have done as her parent. And again, I would do it again in a heartbeat.
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